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Bernhard Kowatsch

I think on a global scale right now, we still have enough food for everybody to live a healthy life. There are lots of different aspects that we have to work on, but it's solvable. We can still do something. We can solve global hunger.

Rob Dongoski

If we can raise the bar for everybody from a production standpoint and address food waste, all of a sudden you're in a global food surplus kind of environment. Now, those are two massively difficult things to accomplish. So I don't want to say it's easy, but yeah, we can feed the planet. 

Matt C. Smith

The truth is, humanity can save itself and our planet. And right at this very moment, there’s someone who has taken on this challenge and is on a path to solving an incredibly tough global problem. This podcast was created to tell you about them.

You’re listening to Better Heroes, a show from the global EY organization about the untold stories of entrepreneurs devoting their lives to impactful innovation. I’m your host, Matt C. Smith.

Better Heroes is a project of EY Ripples, a global program to mobilize people across the EY network to help solve the world's most urgent social and environmental challenges.

For the past few weeks, we’ve been talking about agriculture and food security. On today’s episode, we’re joined by Rob Dongoski and Bernhard Kowatsch. Rob is the EY Global Food and Agriculture Leader, and Bernhard is the Founder and Head of the Innovation Accelerator at the UN World Food Program. They’re here to help us understand how climate change and a growing world population will affect food production.

The UN estimates that the global population hit eight billion people in 2022. That means we’re going to need a lot of innovation to feed all those people. But Bernhard and Rob believe world hunger is solvable, and they’re here to tell us why.

Dongoski

So, I've been around agriculture my entire life. But really, for the last probably ten or 15 years, I've taken a specific interest in food and agriculture. And obviously, with population growth, food security and planet health have become top of mind.

Smith

Planet health. I love that. And your development through your journey with EY — how has that shaped from your career before that? I mean, have you always had a focus on how to optimize and use technology in things like regenerative agriculture? Things like topsoil regeneration, etc.? 

Dongoski

I think those issues have certainly become top of mind in the last, call it, five to seven years. But I think a lot of the clients I've been dealing with over the past 15 years have been asking, “How do I serve consumers better? How do I produce more off my land? How do I optimize profits?” It's been very much a traditional kind of view in that sense. But I think, in the last five years or so, the conscious awareness of the impact on the planet and the impact on health on a broader scale has become more top of mind. So now we see technology and where is it going to fit to do things that are taking care of soil, taking care of pasture lands, and taking care of water use. So, it's absolutely something that we see as critical to our future food system.

Smith

If we look at the world of agriculture, I think that the majority of us would think of a farmer in a field. Right? The words innovation or technology, don't really have a place on that landscape, do they? Or do they?

Dongoski

I think they always have. I think it's one of the most untold stories out there. I mean, if you think about autonomous vehicles, we're all kind of excited to see where that market goes. We've had autosteer tractors for almost 15 years. So we've used telematics in the field to drive tractors for a long time.

Smith

Some of our Better Heroes are actually using apps and technology with tractors. Go check out our episode with Jehiel Oliver.

Dongoski

I think the key is that these problems aren't solved in the boardroom, and they're not solved in the fields by themselves. I always say we need boots and suits, so we've got to kind of link the field and the boardroom around how we can solve this together. Because this has to be a collaborative solution, a collaborative exercise. It’s certainly not someone looking for a silver bullet.

Smith

I love that. Boots and suits. Bernhard in Munich with the innovation accelerator. Fill us in. What is your background that has led you to have the role you have today, impacting the world of food production the way that you have?

Kowatsch

Yeah, I mean, incidentally, I started my career working in private sector management, consulting with lots of industrial goods companies and also tech companies building new businesses. And it's probably twelve years back that I thought about how I can use my skills to also further social impact. This is when I joined the World Food Program of the United Nations and picked up the internal management consulting team. Then, together with a friend, I actually co-founded an app that's called “ShareTheMeal”. It's a micro-donation app — with $0.80, you can feed a child for a day. So, that's the basic concept that is now the World Food Program's corporate donation app.

Then, from that experience, there just weren’t that many supporting infrastructures out there for social entrepreneurs. I then actually got the chance to start the global accelerator for the UN World Food Program to support social entrepreneurs both in emergency response as well as sustainably ending hunger in agriculture in developing countries. So really, the focus of the journey, if you look at it right now, it all makes a lot of sense. But it's, I guess, the passion of believing in innovation, technology and startups, and that we can actually use that to benefit some of the most vulnerable or hungry people on the planet.

Smith

So, recycling your own entrepreneurial knowledge into existing startups and businesses that are in the “agtech” space, the agricultural technology space. I'm curious about the landscape of agricultural technology companies. Where are these businesses located and what kind of innovations are they working on?

Kowatsch

I think that we need to differentiate food production and sometimes the startups or innovations that we're supporting. They might be the startups that actually connect farmers to markets or they might be the startups that do satellite images or use technology to benefit lots of smallholder farmers in developing countries. Typically, when we are receiving up to 2000 applications from startups and nonprofit innovations per year right now, and they predominantly actually come from Africa. So, like lots of startups, lots of entrepreneurs, lots of talent coming from the African continent. But then, we are looking for innovation in startups globally. So, they might be coming from the US, from Western Europe, or anywhere on the planet; they could even be from Afghanistan for some of the startups that we're looking at. Now, the goal for us is, of course, not making money, but rather, how can we positively impact the lives of as many people as possible and ultimately eradicate global hunger?

Smith

And that's an interesting point. Global hunger, right? Because when we talk about agriculture, we talk about food. Like I opened with, is the issue hunger? Is the issue production? Is the issue consumption? Overconsumption? Under consumption for some? What's the real issue when it comes to agriculture and food production? You know, there are eight billion people, eight billion mouths to feed, right? And the majority of those mouths feed themselves. Whether you are a smallholder farmer in Nigeria, for example, one of the largest subsets of that individual culture globally. But what's the real problem here? Is it transportation, consumption, overconsumption or underproduction?

Kowatsch

I think right now, on a global scale, we still have enough food for everybody to live a healthy life. Now the challenge is that, oftentimes it is contextual on a regional basis. You need to really think about what's actually driving hunger in any particular area. It might be just the availability of the food. Because of a drought or a war, there's not enough food in any particular country. It could be access, like when people just don't have enough income and they’re too poor to afford food. Or it could be the utilization.

So, it's like talking about food waste or talking about using the food to actually feed animals. Or maybe, it's about how you're making use of the calories and the food that you have. It's usually not as simple as a silver bullet. But the fact is, it's a solvable problem. We can do something about it. And even with a growing world population, yes, we need to have more innovation. We actually need to do more, also because of climate change, to lower the climate impact and regenerate the soils. There are lots of different aspects that we have to work on, but it's solvable. We can still do something. We can solve global hunger.

Smith

What are the current stats on global hunger and who's going hungry? Rob, what are the problems there that you're experiencing and how are you dealing with them?

Dongoski

We've kind of looked at several major paradoxes in our food system. One of those is that we have hunger and obesity in the same world. So, you think about those like, “Well, why can't we slide food off one plate and put it on another?” It seems pretty simple at a philosophical level. But what's more interesting is that in many parts of the world, most of these people actually reside in the same exact regions as the hungriest people. So, you can’t afford to eat or all you can afford to eat are foods that are not necessarily good for you. So, we've got those kinds of issues that are really paramount. Yet the investment in those is not as much as saying, “Hey, let's do something that's organic or plant-based.” So you kind of follow the money to some degree. The other thing I think is that you kind of look at what's the real big issue.

The real big issue is that we continue to try to move food from areas of surplus to areas of deficit. In some cases, we can do that with big grains, right? I mean, if you look at global trade, you can see that happen. But then, at the same time, to move food over food miles, over really long distances, you've got to start adding things to that food — preservatives and things that give it a longer shelf life. And consumers are saying, “Wait a second, I don't want that stuff in my food.” So, we've got to find a way to kind of produce effectively and efficiently and have a short supply chain so that we can actually match producers and consumers. All that sounds like, “Okay, you just solved it.” It's massively complex when you think about all the many factors that are inhibiting that today.

Smith

What are the factors inhibiting that?

Dongoski

I think it's education. I think it's access to capital. I think it's interest in the industry. I mean, if you think about people that are exiting the agriculture industry because, candidly, they have that perception of, “Oh! It's not very high tech; it's not very kind of cool and sexy.” Right? And then, you know, the reality is that we're moving away from a globalized economy and moving into more of a lighter globalization structure. Depending on how far we go in a geopolitical nature, we may find that it really disrupts a lot of our trade practices that we've come to really rely on. And so, this food system, like we run a platform called “Food System Reimagine”, which takes a decade-forward look at the food system and we look at this and just think of all the trends that are affecting it. And Bernhard did a nice job of highlighting the rising incomes and global population increases. All these things are really creating a whole new food system as we look forward.

Smith

Rob, Bernhard. Let's maybe go through them one by one, because it seems as if there are multitudes of problems to solve here. Or different areas, right? Traditionally, for farmers in most parts of the world, it's an inherited business. It's a family business. Right? And you're seeing more and more of those individuals not wanting to take on farming practices. I'm talking about farming on a more industrial level. Agro-prenuership is one aspect of it. Bernhard, you come across agro-prenuers. I can imagine those actually working in the innovation of farming and elsewhere. What's your experience with agro-prenuers, and how can we encourage more people to see agriculture as an exciting and vibrant place to work?

Kowatsch

Yeah, I think it's really one of those elements, like showing good examples and exciting stories about startups or innovation, that really make a difference for people. You can create an income, and it could also be a springboard for something else or for creating a big change on the planet as well. And I think this is where in recent years we've seen trends in areas like food tech or agritech. If you think about plant-based solutions or plant-based meats, it was really exciting. Food delivery startups or quick commerce type of startups are also, in a wider sense, in the food systems, and the same applies to some of the startups that we're seeing in this space.

It could be like hydroponics, which involves growing plants without soil. People may know these as vertical farms since that has been very successful. And when people think about vertical farming, probably they think, “Oh! You're a cool entrepreneur.” So we need to bring in more of this “Oh! You're this cool entrepreneur” kind of feeling. And, you know, maybe there are other things, like how we have been working on farm-to-fork digitization on blockchain platforms.

Kowatsch

But I do see that there’s a lot of opportunity because, as we were just discussing earlier, yes, certainly in some areas it’s still very traditional. So that also means there's an opportunity for a positive type of disruption.

Smith

When we come to that sort of grassroots-level development, it's not just about innovations being more efficient and effective. Of course, it is. But it's also about looking at new ways of farming. But actually, I've learned that it's not just about looking at new ways. It's about doing old ways in a new way. Is that right with regenerative agriculture, Rob?

Dongoski

Yeah, that was almost my reaction when you said there were new ways of doing farming. I mean, I think a lot of this is using the old ways, but just telling people that you're doing it. I mean, that's the amazing thing about farmers. I've never met a farmer yet, and I spent a lot of time there. Right? And I've never met a farmer yet who has a completely dismissive attitude towards their land. They want to take care of their land. That's the biggest asset on their balance sheet. So, they want nothing more than to take care of that land and they want it to be productive every year. So, we can get into really distinct regenerative agriculture practices like crop rotations, no-tills, and those sorts of things, you know?

Smith

What is it in its plainest, simplest terms for me to understand? And for our friends to grasp, those who aren't working in this industry, regenerative agriculture, what is it?

Dongoski

Right now, regenerative agriculture has a definition that is varied. So, I don't want to say, “Here it is.” But if you really pull it back, one of the core tenets is taking care of the soil health. That's what you hear more in that regenerative ag space. So, to do that, though, I think what ends up happening with those big companies that you mentioned is that now all of a sudden, they need to have a different relationship with farmers. They need to find farmers who want to grow the crops they need in a certain way and develop that relationship in a different way. They may need to co-invest with them, help them get access to capital, access to technology and do things differently. So that's where I think we're going to see some rewiring of the supply system on the front end of food.

Smith

On a smaller scale, startups are coming up with creative and innovative solutions to all of the problems we’ve described so far. And Bernhard’s innovation accelerator is helping the best of the best.

Kowatsch

We try to get the word out that you can actually have a positive impact with innovation, with startups, by helping hungry people across the world. Now out of all those applications, we typically then select up to ten teams that go into what we call an Innovation Bootcamp, which is a one-week training program with a pitch event towards the end where they have the chance to present in front of investors, government representatives, foundations and private sector companies, and then the best teams go into what we call the sprint phase. They get up to $100,000 in cash, equity-free funding, grant funding, hands-on support through our team and connections to the World Food Program field offices and partners to really either do a new pilot or go from one country to the next, and expand the impact of those startups or innovations. And then the best goes on to our scaling program, our scale enablement program, to help them expand the impact from one country to different other countries, and then afterward really have a big global impact.

Smith

There are so many different places along our supply chain where food can be wasted. A solution is definitely not one-size-fits-all. On the production end, farmers need ways to prevent post-harvest losses; solutions include ways of drying fruits, vegetables and grains, as well as airtight and temperature-controlled containers. On the consumption end, businesses and individuals need to consider their needs and strive to purchase just the right amount of ingredients. Some solutions to this include data and analytics.

Kowatsch

Now, in terms of just food waste, I mean transport is one thing. But the biggest food waste or losses happen in developing countries, typically at the farm level. So sometimes 40% to 50% of the food is lost. It is never entering the food systems. It’s called post-harvest losses. So that's a big, big impact. I mean, think about all the resources that are wasted. That's not actually going into productive food. We actually have an initiative called the “post-harvest loss initiative”, which essentially involves drying the crops and putting them into airtight storage in silos. It’s a little bit like a fridge for what we would have, but it's typically good storage for grains and we see lots of innovations there.

We work on a public-private partnership venture model there right now. On the other end, in developed countries, depending on the country, the estimates are that 30% to 40% of the food might be lost at restaurants and at the household level. You know, it's just thrown away. Food waste and transportation are also interesting. That's when you then typically think about the different aspects, like what are you transporting? And then, do you have a cold chain or a cool chain at least? So typically, when you think about, let's say you're growing vegetables, you go to a market and if you don't sell them the same day, if you don't have access to cooling or cold storage, essentially the food gets lost, right? This is where, still on a local level, investing is a big thing.

Now, the food waste in developed countries, again, on the other hand, is about how can you actually steer the consumption and the supply chain benefits. So, this is where the challenge is. Like, how much do you need to order? How much do you have to have in stock? It's a big data challenge, essentially, because who knows what everybody wants to buy tomorrow, right? So, it's challenging. If we knew all of this, or if we only had limited choices, of course, we could optimize.

Smith

I'm curious, and this goes to both of you: which is the lowest hanging of the problem areas to solve? I mean, which has the greatest impact with the least amount of input? Is it on the agricultural level? Is it on the supply chain, as you just said, for example, post-harvest losses, right? Is that the one thing we could solve to make the biggest impact today?

Kowatsch

I'll give you an example. In Uganda, there are four and a half million smallholder farmers. Three and a half million of those smallholder farmers do not have any access to these kinds of post-harvest handling facilities. So, 50% of the harvest of those farmers is getting lost, or up to 50%. So imagine the waste that's occurring there. And it’s a very simple thing; you're drying the crops, then you're putting them into an airtight, special plastic bag or a silo, and then the food loss goes down to like only one or two percent. So, the smaller farmers double or sometimes almost triple their income, so the leeway is huge if you think about this.

Dongoski

Well, I think it varies too, where you're at in the world. You gave a great example of Uganda. You come over to the U.S. or Western Europe or something. The issues are very different. You may find that post-harvest loss is a major issue in Uganda, but the post-meal loss is perhaps a bigger issue in other parts of the world. Maybe serving portions are too large, so we're wasting it and throwing it away. So, I think you find a huge variable depending on where you're in the world.

Smith

I, and probably our friends, listen to this too — ideas are spinning. I feel like this is quite an interesting area to get involved in. I went vegan for seven months to try it, and I urge anyone to try it as well. Obviously, speak to your doctor first before you do such a thing. But I enjoyed the experience. I'm a flexitarian right now. Rob, Bernhard, are you vegetarian, vegan or flexitarian, and what are you seeing? Is it the right move to go into that world and become vegan, flexitarian or plant-based?

Dongoski

Again, I love Bernhard's term of personalization. I think we're moving from a system of scale toward personalized food. Right? So, let's fast-forward to five or ten years from now. And so I ran my genetic makeup. I know exactly how foods interact with my body, and by the way, beets don't make me feel very good, but celery gives me energy. Whatever it is, you know. So now that I know how foods interact with my body, I have a personalized blueprint of my genetics. Right?

Smith

How did you do that?

Dongoski

I have a wearable.

Smith

A wearable is something like a smart watch or a fitness tracker.

Dongoski

Here it is. It's 10:20 here in Nashville. And my watch just goes off and says, “You know what, you're 20 grams short of protein right now.” Because it's all personalized, it knows exactly what I want. And I go, “Okay, well, I'm 20 grams short; what are my options?” “Well, I can have some beef jerky sent to you; here's a pea-based option;” and so on and so forth. And I go, “I'm going to go with this option.” “Do you want that delivered to you? Do you want to walk down the street and get it? Here are two stores that you can go to, and oh, by the way, you should take a walk because you're short on steps so far.” That kind of personalization is what we should expect in the future. I live in the US where we've always had the food pyramid. So, everybody subscribed to the food pyramid. I think that's kind of out of date because I think everyone has their own geometric shape. It may be a pyramid; it could be a diamond; it could be anything. So, I think personalization becomes the key for any of these diets. What makes the most sense to you? And then, how do I actually make it easy to get there?

Smith

Thanks, Rob. Bernhard, what are your thoughts on that?

Kowatsch

I mean, this is where it's getting really tough because we're not just talking about facts. We are also talking about behavior change and long-term behavior change. So, I think this is true for everybody who's probably listening to this as well, where the first step is maybe having awareness. The second step is really knowing the difference. So, knowing that maybe eating only meat or maybe you should replace one meal where you don't eat as much meat or going vegetarian, can have a positive influence on climate. So maybe knowing that is good, but then you need to actually change it. And in the same way, maybe you drink one less cup of coffee a day. It wouldn’t cost you a lot of willpower to do that, but this is where, in the area of agriculture and food, food consumption is not just about what you eat or the choices you make, but also about what you don’t actually do. Because something that you don’t consume doesn’t have to be produced. 

Dongoski

You know, Matt, if I'm one of your listeners right now, I'm thinking, “Okay, you're talking to a couple of folks who are thinking about solving world hunger, which has always been this elusive equation.” And at the same time, we're talking about all this stuff that's changing. So let me just reflect on what's not changing. Let me give you some perspective. So, in the consumer world, consumers have bought food based on two criteria, and I think they'll continue to buy based on the same two criteria: affordability and taste. And so, the question then becomes, “What's criteria three? Is it healthy for me, healthy for the planet or whatever?” But if you do all those things and it doesn't taste good or costs too much, you're not going to get there. So, affordability and taste are the constants at the consumer end.

Smith

On that topic, are the large businesses that you work with — the large grain producers, providers, etc. — are they looking at these types of grocery innovations and incorporating those kinds of businesses? You mentioned self-driving tractors. What other sorts of technologies are you seeing crossing over between start-ups in the innovation world and traditional agricultural and farming?

Dongoski

Vertical farms. Controlled environment agriculture. You know, we're seeing it. We're very active in conversations with grocery stores and big restaurants to say whether you should verticalize certain categories that are in your stores. One of the ways you might do that is to actually run a vertical farm inside a grocery store. So, think about that from a consumer standpoint. Do you want it fresh and local? There's nothing fresher and more local than something growing right inside the store. So, we are on the cusp of consumers touching a plant for the very first time when they stick it in their grocery basket. So, I see innovations like that. I see lots of things on the upfront end where we're seeing imagery go to the next level. We were doing satellites and drones, and that's great. Now we're into multispectral, hyperspectral cameras that are really providing some insights into what's going on in my field. How can I optimize my yield? A lot of those innovations are crossing over.

Smith

The real thing I'm curious about with all of this is, gentlemen, can you solve the question for us? Is there enough food to feed all of us?

Dongoski

Yeah. I think if you could capture the 30% of food wasted today and run that out. I'd say capture the 30% that's wasted and optimize the yields of places that are not getting the same yields as other parts of the world. In many parts of the emerging farming environments and for smallholder farmers, the yield that they're getting is sometimes only 25% on the same crop compared to other people in other parts of the world. That's education; that's access to fertilizers; that’s access to lots of things. If we can raise the bar for everybody from a production standpoint and address food waste, all of a sudden, you're in a global food surplus kind of environment. Now, those are two massively difficult things to accomplish, so I don't want to say it's easy, but yeah, we can feed the planet. Bernhard, I’d love to hear your perspective.

Kowatsch

Yeah. No, I mean, as a matter of fact, global hunger is a totally solvable problem. The unfortunate truth, though, is that in the last three years since COVID-19, i.e., between 2019 and now, the number of people marching toward starvation, acutely hungry people, has more than doubled. That’s 350 million people right now who are marching toward starvation. And the big drivers behind that are conflict and also climate change. And that’s real, like this. You might feel maybe it's a little warmer, maybe it's a little colder, maybe there's less rain, maybe there's more rain. If you are in a developing country and you don't have a safety net, you don't have savings, you have an issue when there is no rain. It is still totally possible that we can all live on a healthy planet and have something to eat. And also deal with or undo some of the damage that has already been done and then have a better planet for everybody.

Smith

It sounds as if these sort of five or six areas — the agricultural aspect, the grass-grain level, the hunger and obesity element, overconsumption, underconsumption, the climate environment element, and the transportation wastage access — these are the key areas that all need solving. You're already leading the beacon for us there, and I want to see more boots and suits, gents.

Dongoski

Always key.

Kowatsch

Yeah, I can only encourage people. This can be a very attractive field in which to innovate and create a company. There's lots of opportunity. Where you see problems, that's a field for an opportunity.

Smith

And we can increase food production, efficient food production, sustainable food production and feed our ever-growing population because there is enough food to go around. We just need to be a bit more efficient about how we distribute it, how we grow it, and why and when we eat it. Right?

Dongoski

Absolutely. I'm actually very encouraged. I have to just say — I mean, I think we see investor pools that are emerging. We're seeing better collaboration across the system. And I think the millennial and Gen Z generations’ renewed curiosity in food or their curiosity in food, has renewed a lot of curiosity for many of us since COVID-19 and all of a sudden food isn't just one of those things that I have to do three times a day. It's an experience, it's a community and it's a real area of interest for a lot of people. So, I'm actually very bullish on where our food system goes from here over the next ten years and beyond. Frankly.

Smith

Are you bullish, Bernhard?

Kowatsch

I'm hopeful. I think this is my day job, but it’s also my passion to show that it's possible to change and that we can make a positive influence on people's lives with innovation and technology. And I'm really hopeful that people who listen to this will get an inspiration. There are things that we can do; each one of us can do something to lead to a better planet.

Smith

You heard that, friends. Let's all contribute and support Rob and Bernhard along the way. Gentlemen, thank you so much for joining us. Really appreciate you bringing some perspective, and some conscious awareness. Thanks, gents.

Thank you for joining me, Matt C. Smith, on this episode of Better Heroes. You can learn more about Bernhard at innovation.wfp.org, and you can learn more about Rob at EY.com. And you can learn more about EY Ripples and all of our impact entrepreneurs at www.ey.com/eyripples. The links are in our show notes.

Please don’t forget to subscribe to our podcast, Better Heroes wherever you listen to podcasts. You can also rate and leave our show a review to help others find out about the amazing work our impact entrepreneurs are doing. Before we go, we’d like to thank our podcast producers Hueman Group Media, who helped us bring this show to life.

That’s it for today’s episode. We’ll be back next week.

Music

Better Heroes is a project of EY Ripples, a global program to mobilize people across the EY network to help solve the world's most urgent social and environmental challenges. By extending EY skills, knowledge and experience to impact entrepreneurs on a not-for-profit basis and forging collaborations with like-minded organizations, EY Ripples is helping scale new technologies and business models that are purposefully driving progress toward the UN’s 17 sustainable development goals.

The views of third parties set out in this podcast are not necessarily the views of the global EY organization or its member firms. Moreover, they should be seen in the context of the time they were made.

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