Podcast Transcript: Power Bite - JK

JK
Somewhere along the way, people said, don't take your real self to work.

Jenelle McMaster
I know.

JK
I don't know when it was and.

Jenelle McMaster
It was a sad day when it was.

JK
It's a sad day. Yes. You know, I talk about two things. Don't mix your humanity up with your ability. You can still be an amazing boss and an asshole you can still be an amazing boss and a really good person. You know what I mean? You can still be a boss that's struggling with anxiety and relationships or whatever it is. That is just a human thing that we've got. And that's what I'm excited about because I don't think that's the future for leadership. The future for leadership is actually being way more authentic and bringing your real self to work.

Jenelle McMaster
I also think the future for leadership is not just this the individual hero leader anymore. I don't think that there's one person that wears a cape and saves the day. I think there's the power of the collective leadership, the people who work together and harness that ability of the broad masses. I think that people who can tap into the diverse abilities of others, people who show their vulnerability, I think that the archetype of leadership has totally changed.

JK
How do you lead and deal with egos at the high level?

Jenelle McMaster
Yes, there's a little bit of eyeball rolling that still happens. And I'm like, okay, I think it's really instructive as well. So when there are really big egos, there's usually a reason behind it. It's usually masking some amount of insecurity about something. It's usually masking some lack of information about something. It's usually a worry. So I think if you can get to the driver behind that to do, like hypothetical so one might ask oneself and then sort of tap on the very thing that they would never be humble enough to put out there. But you can diffuse that. I think when you come up with shared language. I think what we both want here is this or co-opt them into answering questions where they would normally be sitting back with their arms crossed, expecting you to have the answers. How might we solve this? Why not appeal to the ego? And then they actually what they're worried about is that they will be cut out. So I think the psychology of it is to try to understand what's driving that behavior, then tap into that rather than go, you're an asshole.

JK
That's great advice, because when I was at my worst, when I was an arrogant asshole rugby player, I was just hiding from me, hiding from my anxiety, hiding from what was really out there. And it was the best defense that I had because often that's what people expected. They expected me to be

Jenelle McMaster
They could reconcile that persona much more readily than someone who is talking about mental health issues or I'm not doing okay.

JK
Yeah, exactly. And I think luckily it didn't last too long. But it was a pretty sad time.

Jenelle McMaster
You've had such a diverse career. What was it that drove you so clearly towards mental health as your focus for a career once you left the sporting world?

JK
Can I just hold you there? I'm blissfully average at a whole lot of stuff, which is okay.

Jenelle McMaster
And you're also exceptional at a number of things as well.

JK
Yeah, but I think it's also important it's okay to be blissfully average. I was hiding my anxiety and my depression.

Jenelle McMaster
And what was happening in your life at that time? Where were you at in your sporting career.

JK
I was incredibly successful externally. I was an all black playing for my country, but I was suffering from anxiety and depression. A lot of people that do have anxiety, and then it falls into depression. I was one of those. I didn't know what it was. My reference to mental health was one flow of The Cookies Nest. Anyone is old enough to remember that movie. So I didn't talk to anyone because I thought I'd be locked up with Jack Nicholson. And that was a real fear. So I spoke to no one. But one night, I was in a hotel room in Buenos Aires and the guy lined next to me said, JK, you've got a good heart. And it saved my life.