Podcast transcript: EY Change Happens Podcast – Dylan Alcott

Intro: Change happens how we respond to change can make or break us and our careers. Join us for an intimate insight into how senior business leaders face change. The good, the bad, and everything in between because whether we like it or not, change happens.

Jenelle: Hi I’m Jenelle McMaster and this is the ‘Change Happens’ podcast. A conversation with influential leaders on leading through change and the lessons learned along the way and today I’m joined on the podcast by French Open 2020 winner in wheelchair tennis,
Dylan Alcott. Dylan is our first athlete on the podcast and what an athlete he is. He’s won three Paralympic Gold Medals in two sports, basketball and tennis. Was awarded 2016 GQ Sportsman of the Year, 2016 Paralympian of the Year and 2016 Newcombe Medal. That was a big year! He’s Australia’s youngest ever wheelchair basketball Olympic Gold Medallist and he’s also been ranked no 1. In the world as a quad competitor in wheelchair tennis. With his most recent grand slam tennis win taking his tally to 11.

Now as if he’s sporting achievements weren’t enough, Dylan received an Order of Australia in 2009 at the age of 18 and he’s the founder of the Dylan Alcott Foundation which focuses on enriching the lives of young people with disabilities by eliminating the barriers of entry to get involved in sport and study. In 2017 he cofounded the Disability and Access Training Start-up called ‘Get Skilled Access’ and also began hosting on national radio station JJJ. He’s now on weekend breakfast with the hit network.

Dylan is an outstanding motivational speaker which I’m sure will be apparent in our discussion today. He’s a philanthropist, radio compare, DJ. He’s rapped on stage with the Wu-Tang Clan and also has set a trend of wheelchair crowd surfing at Australia’s biggest music festivals. He’s an author because of course he is! Of a book called ‘Able’ and look there is so much more, that if I went into it we’d never actually get to hear from the man himself. I will call out though that he does have a Logie. Yep last year he also picked himself up the Graham Kennedy Logie for Most Popular New Talent. So clearly this is an all-round legend of a human being and someone who I’m absolutely pumped to be speaking with today.

Dylan, welcome.

Dylan: Good day Jenelle. That’s a fair pump up!

Jenelle: I tell you what I need a lie down after that!

Dylan: Imagine if I’m crap right now! The first athlete and I bomb this podcast!

Jenelle: No pressure! But I’m expecting huge things!

Dylan: I appreciate you having me on today. Thank you.

Jenelle: Thanks for joining and look massive congratulations to you on that stellar win in the French Open. I know that you’re undergoing the mandatory two weeks quarantine. How are you coping? The highs and the not so highs?

Dylan: Yeah coping fine and I tell you it was pretty weird. First and foremost I felt very lucky to be able to go away during a pandemic and do my job and things like that. I just want to send my love to everybody listening that’s been affected by it because it’s been pretty tough for a lot of people, especially people’s mental health and things like that.

It was definitely different overseas. COVID is maybe not taken as seriously say in some parts of the world compared to what we’re doing in Australia and I’ve never, safe to say when I got off the plane, I wasn’t expecting my own police escort into a hotel room whereby you go in and then you literally can’t leave for two weeks.

I’m doing my hotel quarantine up in Sydney and yeah the police and the army and everyone doing an incredible job to get us here. But yeah it’s definitely a little bit different.

Jenelle: Yeah it is different. You can pretend it’s because of your Rockstar status and not because of the need to quarantine!

Dylan: Well that was the first time I’ve ever been back in a Divvy van or a paddy wagon! My girlfriend we got in the car and she said “It wasn’t the first time I’ve been in here!” and I thought [3.43].

Jenelle: Look it’s definitely been a whirlwind couple of months. You’ve had competing at the US and the French Grand Slams but I know in June it looked quite unlikely that the wheelchair category in the US Open would take place because of the pandemic. I know you were candid in expressing your let’s call it your discontent around that situation. Tell me a bit about what it was like over that period and how did it all play out? Pardon the pun!

Dylan: Yeah so the US Open decided they were going to go ahead which I thought was great. I thought we were going to be included and then the press release came out and there was no mention of wheelchair tennis and they’d actually cancelled the wheelchair tennis but not the able bodied tennis and they didn’t tell us. They just expected it to go under the rug.

Now I was pretty flat with that because I feel we as athletes with a disability in the past might have been seen as second class citizens and a lot of people with disability all around the world still feel like that. To be honest Jenelle I wasn’t angry. I was really sad to be blatantly discriminated against really hurt. I just expressed my feelings.

Did I think it was going to get 10 million impressions online? Did I think it was going to be on the page 3 of the New York Times? Did I think Andy Murray was going to call me and say “Hey Dyl, I’ve spoken to Roger Federer, Rafa and Novak and put in the WhatsApp that we want to help get you back in there. No, I didn’t think that would happen! But credit to the US Open they realised that they made a mistake and changed it so we could compete.

But this happens every day to people with a disability. Able bodied people decide:

• What restaurants we can go into. 
• What airlines we can fly. 
• What jobs we get the opportunity to apply for. 
• What universities we can go to.

That choice is often taken away from us because of people’s unconscious biases and a lack of understanding about discrimination of things like that. I felt like I had to stand up for my community and I’m really glad we got the opportunity to play. I didn’t win. I played crap in the final unfortunately but got a little bit of revenge in the French Open which was nice.

Jenelle: Absolutely you did. It really speaks to the power of the platform that you have. Whether or not you intended for those things to happen it certainly was a powerful use of your profile and network.

Dylan: Well I think also one of the things which was always really tough for people with a disability and the generations before me is there was always people who could speak up for inequality when it comes to gender bias, or the LGBTIQ community, or racism, or whatever it is, but for people with a disability there was and there still isn’t enough people in the mainstream with that voice to stand up for our community.

Previously when someone got discriminated with a disability no one cared or knew. I think now one of the things I’m so thankful for and I’m so privileged to be in a position is that for some reason unknown to me the community and the Australian public and people have really bought into my story. They’ve really got behind me which gave me that platform to speak out. It’s something that I don’t take for granted because when I get discriminated against on an airline or whatever, they’re buying me red wine because they don’t want me to call them out because they know that I’m a bit famous. But what if you’re a 40 year old lady with MS. Or a little kid with cerebral palsy at school. They don’t have that profile that I have so they get discriminated against. So I think it’s important for not only people with profile like me to stand up for the community with people with a disability, but also all of us to continue to highlight people with a disability who are doing great in our community as well because we need more voices out there. Not just myself or other Paralympians or whatever it is.

Jenelle: Yeah and just on that the challenges. I know that COVID has added so many more challenges for people with a disability. Simple things like the virus surviving on the surfaces of wheelchairs or being unable to rely on support workers if they’re unwell. There has been the need to isolate more due to compromised health and the risk of contracting COVID.

From your perspective, what’s been toughest? And what are you seeing as particularly tough for people with a disability and how can we continue to create an inclusive environment for them, particularly during this time?

Dylan: Ripping question. Look a few things. First and foremost the pandemic has been terrible for everybody but I know some people that have been in full isolation, have not seen a single person since February because of their compromised health. So I’m not saying all people with a disability have compromised health but if you are immunocompromised. Or you have problems with your repository system due to your disability well then that’s a long time ago and it’s probably going to be for a little while longer.

People go ‘oh it’s just a mild cold, why can’t we get out and live?’ Yeah it might be for you but it’s not for some people. You know what I mean? I think in particular the people from Australia have played such an incredible role in doing the right thing to make sure there is limited numbers all around the country especially people from Melbourne at the moment which is where I’m from. They’ve done it tougher than anybody throughout the country.

As you said some support workers decided not to work anymore because they didn’t want to get infected or infect other people. If you need full time support it’s often been harder to get but there are incredible support network companies out there. Like I do a bit of work for one called Mable, whereby they’ve made sure that they’ve done everything in their power to not only get in the home and help people when they need it, but also support work through online systems to benefit people with their mental health and connect and things like that. Because one thing I hated Jenelle about the pandemic is the word ‘social distancing’. Because people distanced physically but they also distanced socially. They didn’t check in on people. They didn’t say hi. They didn’t make sure that they’re ok. I think the term physical distancing is way better.

Jenelle: Yep.

Dylan: Because you still socially check in on people but for people with a disability that have been in isolation for a long time they’ve found that they haven’t had that social connection which they’re looking to.

Jenelle: Yeah isolating.

Dylan: It is. It affects their mental health as well. One of the other biggest things as well is that I’m really passionate about but also worried about is obviously the economy has been hit so hard and people’s employment have been affected massively, whether you’re disabled or not. But something that I’m really passionate about is trying to advocate to people with a disability to get employment. For example, are you ready for this?

Jenelle: I’m ready.

Dylan: There are 4.6 million people in Australia with some kind of physical or non-physical disability. One in five Australians have a disability.

Jenelle: Wow.

Dylan: Did you know that? That’s a massive number.

Jenelle: I didn’t realise it was as high as that.

Dylan: Yeah and of that 4.6 million, only 50% of those people can find a job which is devasting even though they want to. So one thing I’m super worried about is Corporate Australia they were starting to look towards people with disability to start working within their workforces but obviously with the pandemic people’s bottom lines and things have been affected massively. I hope those opportunities are still there for people with disability to get out and work especially on the backend of what’s going on. I think all of us in Corporate Australia to continue to provide those opportunities because people need it.

Jenelle: I think you’re right.

Dylan: Yeah people with a disability make incredible.. can make a huge impact on the workforce.

Jenelle: Well I know that you are certainly doing plenty in that space yourself. I believe you’re in the process of launching a new business ‘Able Foods’ which works in some part to creating employment opportunities as well get skilled access, same deal. Do you want to tell me a bit about those and how they help that particular cause?

Dylan: Yeah I’ve founded two organisations. One of them, they’re both profit for purposes. One’s called ‘Get Skilled Access’. We’re a consulting company working with governments and corporates to help them better understand the needs of people with disabilities. Not only get them ready to employ people with a disability but also get them ready to improve their customer service and product offering for people with a disability they’re consumers as well. People are often shocked to know as I said about the high numbers of people with a disability within the country, but people with a disability, studies show they have higher productivity than able bodied people when they get a job. They have lower absenteeism and they have higher retention rates as well. But as I said unemployment is well over doubled compared to able bodied people and only 50% odd percent can find employment.

It’s about educating Corporate Australia and governments about what people with a disability can really do but also how easy it is for them to integrate people with a disability within their workforce cause often people over complicate the process and think it’s too hard or they think people with a disability can’t do it. Or whatever it is. All of our consultants have a disability as well. All lived experience which is cool.

Yeah the other organisation I’m about to launch is called ‘Able Foods’. I often talk to businesses about how to employ people with a disability and the benefits and I thought you know what ‘stuff this!’. I’m just going to go and do it. One thing I really struggled with that was tough for me was getting around the house and creating food and looking after my diet and things like that because obviously it’s quite hard to cook Jenelle. Like benches are too high. You might drop things on yourself, things like that.

So we started a ready-made meal service to help people with a disability live happier and healthier lives providing them with a nutritious meal plan and things like that. With the NDIS which has been a huge benefit to people with a disability across the country. People on the NDIS now can get our services for a very, very minimal cost which is pretty cool as well, and throughout the whole business whether it’s in the office, whether it’s creating the food, whether it’s in the warehouse we only employ people with a disability. Trying to provide those opportunities as well.

Jenelle: I love that. The product helps people with a disability and the creation of the product helps people with a disability. So it’s got a great circular reinforcement in the model.

Dylan: Yeah that’s the plan and hopefully we can show other businesses what assets people with a disability can be. I love winning grand slam tennis tournaments but my true passion in life is trying to help people with a disability – get out and live the lives that they deserve to live. That’s why I get out of bed every day and luckily the grand slams and that gives me the profile and the platform to be able to do that which is pretty cool. That’s why these entities – I’m just trying to further that as much as I can.

Jenelle: Let’s just talk about the grand slams for a minute. Just in the sense – clearly sport has been an amazing platform for you to be able to do these other passion areas as well that you’ve talked about now. You’ve been quoted as saying ‘sport saved my life’. Pretty profound statement. How did it save your life?

Dylan: Yeah it 100% did. People might know me as the person they see on tele. I like to think that the person I might see on tele is exactly the same as I. I try and be as authentic all the time. I’m always me. I can’t honestly be anybody that I’m not. When I was 12, 13, 14, Jenelle I hated my disability. I got bullied about my disability and I was pretending to be somebody that I wasn’t. My life sucked. It really did. I never thought I was going to get over it. I never thought I was going to be anybody. I didn’t think even I’d be sitting here potentially talking to you today and I mean that. That was until I started playing sport.

You could take away all the gold medals and grand slams, I tell you the biggest thing that sport did for me, it introduced me to people that were like me. I’d never really met anyone with a disability but I started playing sport and I was like ‘Oh my God that guy in a wheelchair is driving a car’. ‘Oh my God that lady in a wheelchair is married, she’s got kids’. ‘Oh my God that person has got a Uni degree’. I didn’t know you could do any of those things.

That social aspect of sport was massive for me and it just so happened that I was alright at it. I’m so glad it gave me so many opportunities to travel the world, to do something that I’m passionate about. But something that has been a big passion for me is not only trying to change the way people view people with a disability in our community but also the way people view athletes with a disability in our sporting career as well. Because I get it. We have inspirational stories and everyone always goes ‘Oh my God they are so inspirational’. ‘They’re so inspirational’, and there might be that element to it but I tell you what else we are, elite athletes we train our backside off and put on a show every single time that we play. Something that I’m really proud about is the way that Corporate Australia, broadcasters and ticketholders are now starting to care about Paralympic sport.

Jenelle: Well it must have been something else when I know you were on centre court, recorded live in one of your grand slams. That must have been quite a moment of this is now not playing second fiddle it is a main event in itself. They must have been incredible.

Dylan: It was the most amazing experience of my life especially Jenelle if you did go back five years when I started playing tennis again, my first Australian Open, there was probably six people watching it and I knew of three of them!

To have 10,000 people in Rod Laver Arena, 1 million people watching on tv and it’s changing the landscape of Paralympic sport. I don’t take for granted that I’m the lucky one. I’m the one with sponsors and things like that. The generation before me it was so hard for them because they didn’t have that opportunity to get sponsors, broadcasters, people didn’t buy tickets to watch, yet they were still putting the same amount of effort and went in the same tennis tournaments and things like that as I was. I just want to leave the Paralympic sport in a better spot for the next generation of young athletes to come. They deserve it just as much as their abled body counterparts.

Jenelle: Now you’ve been quoted as saying if I can take a magic pill that would mean I’m not in a wheelchair anymore, you couldn’t pay me enough to take it. I’ve thought about that sentence a bit and to me and at least you can tell me your take on it, but to me it felt like you see your disability as a super power rather than a liability and it’s something that I’m really interested in. One of my previous guests, I think you know Wendy Harmer. I interviewed her a couple of weeks ago and she talked about that moment when she recognised that her differences were actually her strengths.

I’m just wondering whether or not that’s the way you meant it when you said that and whether there was a particular moment or an event or something that happened which made you realise that? Or whether it’s just something in hindsight you’ve come to appreciate it?

Dylan: I think my disability is my biggest asset in my eyes. Or one of my biggest assets. It doesn’t define me but it plays a massive role in who I am. I used to shy away from that. I used to not be proud of my disability. I used to get called a cripple and a spastic at school.

Jenelle: That’s so jarring to hear that.

Dylan: Yeah and I believed them. I stayed at home two years of my life thinking ‘Why me?’ Why am I disabled? And then I looked in the mirror one day and I thought ‘stuff this’ I’ve got to try and get my life back. I found that people didn’t actually hate me because of my disability they were just actually awkward and didn’t understand it and didn’t want to talk about it and used to shy away from it. I found as soon as I started talking about my disability and embracing it and being proud of it, everybody else around me became more comfortable about it.

The most important thing that I can pass on is the influence of a positive perception of your situation because it’s not the events in life that dictates a life that you live. It’s how you perceive those events that determines the path that you take.

You know what I’m not trying to say I’m always positive about my situation of having a disability. For example, I want to have a kid one day and I’ll have to ask my brother Zac to teach him how to kick a football cause I can’t do it. That sucks. When its summer time I have to watch people like yourself Jenelle run along the sand and jump in the water at the beach, something I’ve never been able to do in all my life. That sucks as well.

But for every one thing that I can’t do there are 10,000 other things that I can do. I’m easily the luckiest guy in Australia, if not this world to be living the life that I live. I get sent so much stuff about stem cell research and things like that and go ‘why don’t you try this?’ and I can honestly say there is not enough money in the whole world you could ever pay me enough to do it because I used to say the Dylan in the wheelchair and the Dylan that walks is the same Dylan but that’s not true. Because the Dylan in the wheelchair is a much better version of any other Dylan that could have ever lived and I honestly would not change my situation for anything. And if was able bodied, would I have won 11 grand slams? Would I be gold medallist? Would I have met my beautiful partner Chantelle who I love so much. Probably not. So why would I give all that up? You know what I mean? I’m so lucky to be who I am for sure. When I can’t get up a few stairs and someone tells me I can’t go in their venue, that’s bullshit and that annoys me, but hey there are so many other things that I can do. I try not to get too caught up in those things.

Jenelle: That’s incredibly powerful. I think there are some really important lessons there. In terms of the way you perceive the events. You instituted obviously the Dylan Alcott Foundation which was about helping young Australians who are struggling to come to terms with their disability to help them fulfil their potential, achieve their dreams.

How do you go about convincing and helping them to shift their mindsets about possibilities? About ambition? Are you working to change their perceptions of events the way you’ve just talked about? Are there other mechanisms that you go through to help people change their mindsets about their circumstances?

Dylan: Yeah. One of the biggest ways to help people change their circumstances is to provide opportunities that aren’t normally there. What we do at the Dylan Alcott Foundation is to try and eliminate those barriers to young people with a disability to achieve their dreams.

When I was growing up I went to a great school and was given opportunities and that, but you speak to people who are career counsellors or going into university and they kind of look at the person with the disability and the kid goes ‘What can I do?’ They’re kind of like ‘I’ve got no idea’. You know what I mean?

Or they might not have access to a certain opportunity that they might have. What I say to them as a young person with a disability. For example, when I decided I wanted to play sport, my brother got a $100 pair of footy boots. I needed a $10,000 wheelchair just to even try. If you can’t afford that, well guess what? You can’t do it.

What we’re trying to do is provide those opportunities for those youngsters to do what they do. Some of the cool stuff. We’ve already put a young girl with a disability through university – become an Access Consultant to make her community more accessible for people with a disability which is super cool.

We’ve actually given people money to do their own start-ups because they weren’t able to get a job. Instead of actually trying to get a job, we’ve given them the opportunities to start their own business themselves, which is super cool. Provided sporting equipment so they can go on their quest to become a Paralympian like I have.

It’s also that element and as you said, mentoring and just talking to them about their situation and trying to give them a bit of the wisdom that I was able to earn throughout my life about that it’s ok to be different and as soon as you harness that difference and be proud of that, it’s actually a more positive thing. But it’s really hard to do. It’s really hard for these kids because one of the things that I see quite a bit which breaks my heart, is I’ll meet a young kid with a disability. They’ll be 12 years old and I’ll say “hello what’s your name?” My “Hi my name is Sarah”. And I’ll say “What’s your disability, Sarah?” And they’re parents go “They don’t have a disability”. When they’re clearly in a wheelchair.

Jenelle: Trying to normalise it as much as..

Dylan: Well because society tells that mother that having a disability is a bad thing, so she tells her kid that they don’t have a disability. When I say to them “Well you clearly have a disability”, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. But societal pressures has told that family that if you have a disability, you can’t get a job. You can’t go on a date. You are less than them. You can’t do anything. So they tell their kid they don’t have a disability when their kid clearly knows they do. That makes it so hard for them.

I think it’s really important for all of us to try and break that stigma that having a disability is a negative thing. That will give people with a disability the confidence to go out there and be proud of who they are. That only happens when we have that societal shift. When people with a disability are given the opportunities they deserve.

I think all generations learn because I think it is happening. It is getting better. But it’s up to people to promote these conversations and talk about it so it can happen quicker.

Jenelle: You’ve met people and worked with people and played alongside people who’ve been born with a disability and you’ve met people who’ve had accidents later in life. Do you think it’s different in dealing with the change and dealing with circumstances? Is it a mindset? And is it a propensity the way you look at the world? Or is it situational? This circumstance happened later, I’ve known a different life therefore it’s harder. What’s your views on that?

Dylan: Yep its apples and oranges in some ways but it’s also similar in others. I was born with my disability. I was born with a tumour wrapped around my spinal cord so I’ve been in a wheelchair my whole life compared to some of my team mates who were 20 years old and had a car accident and next minute they can’t walk. I can’t compare cause I obviously didn’t have an accident. But one thing I can say is this, when you are 20 years old and you have an accident or whatever, you know what it’s like to kick a football. You know what’s like to feel the sand between your toes but when you have that accident you lose it. So it’s an interesting question. Would you rather know what it’s like to have and then lose it? Or never know like me.

One thing I will say when you have an accident or something happens to you, hopefully you have a great support network around you. You might have a partner, friends, family, you’ve already experienced things in life where you went to school, you might have had a job, you might have went to uni whatever it is. One thing I can say about being born with a disability, unfortunately kids can be brutal. It’s so hard sometimes for young people with disabilities to get friends. To get opportunities. They get bullied because they’re different.

One maybe good thing about having an accident later in life is that you might have a better support network around you but there is challenges in both. There is obviously opportunities in both. It just completely depends about the lens in which you look at it.

One of the hardest places to go in the world is a rehabilitation centre after an accident because there are just so many people in there that have had accidents. They’ve lost legs. They’ve had brain injuries. They’re in wheelchairs, whatever it is. They think they’re life is over because that’s what they’ve been told. That’s why changing that narrative is so important because ‘yeah your life is now different but it’s not over’. There are still so many things you can do. It’s up to all of us especially Corporate Australia to keep providing those opportunities so people realise that they’re life isn’t over when something pretty severe happens.

Jenelle: I’m interested in the pace of change when it comes to the disability sector. Not that you’re an old man now of course!

Dylan: I am! I’m getting old!

Jenelle: No you can’t say that cause I’m older than you! If you’re old, I’m ancient!

Dylan: I’m 30 years old in a few weeks! Washed up!

Jenelle: Good grief!

Dylan: You could stick a fork in me!

Jenelle: If only you could so something worthwhile with your life! Thinking back to your younger years and the kinds of challenges as a kid you’ve had with a disability. We’ve talked about a few of those. Do you think looking at the situation now that any of those challenges have lessened? Has societal understanding for instance changed? Has technology advancements helped things along? Tell me about the pace of change in the sector.

Dylan: Change has been so important for people with a disability in the whole sector. I’m so glad I’m born now put it that way. Looking at photos 30 years ago of the wheelchairs, the way people tried to drive cars, I can’t even begin to describe what’s it’s like.

Dylan: My current tennis wheelchair is a carbon fibre mould of my body, the same way Daniel Ricciardo has a carbon fibre mould of his body and I’m lucky that I’m looked after by a company called Melrose Wheelchairs who do my chairs. My chair is like $40,000/ $50,000. The technology is incredible, even for people not just with my disability. For people with non-physical disabilities, intellectual disabilities, whatever it is. I got on a plane last year with a guy who was blind, 100% blind. The plane landed, he was with his guide dog. He ordered an uber and uber eats on his phone that he can’t see or use.

Jenelle: Wow.

Dylan: I was like how awesome is that! He was able to get a ride share, get food or whatever it is, using technology through his watch and through his phone. Now that helps him be independent and things like that which is super awesome to see.

The one thing that is changing, but needs to change quicker, is societal perceptions, stigmas and opportunities. I like to think that employment of people with a disability is getting better. Yet the unemployment rate is exactly the same as 10 years ago.

The population of people with a disability is 4.6 million people, yet only 3 – 4% of them are actually in the workforce throughout Corporate Australia, in Australia’s biggest organisations.

The public sector, in some states, only 2% of their staff have a disability.

Jenelle: Why is it that you think society is being so slow to move on this?

Dylan: There are a number of reasons. There is a perception that:

• People with a disability can’t do the job as well as able bodied people. 
• It’s going to be expensive or hard to onboard people with a disability.

One of the things I say is if you compare you and I right. If you had to do a workplace adjustment for me and you to work at the same place, I actually save money because I BYO chair. I bring my own chair to the desk! So we get rid of your chair and then it’s actually saving resources. But actually people often think that’s it’s a hard process, when actually it’s not, and when you do require workplace adjustment, there is government funding to do it, so it actually costs you no money.

• I think also there is a lack of education around it.

I often hear “We once employed someone with a disability. We put them in a teamwork of 10. No one really talked to him and then he ended up leaving 6 months later”. I say “Did you do any onboard training for those people about how to integrate someone with a disability into your workplace?” “No, we didn’t”. “We didn’t think we needed to”.

I don’t blame people that they don’t understand the best way to integrate and talk to someone with a disability because they might have never met someone with a disability. They might not have had any exposure for someone with a disability. You can’t just assume everybody will go ‘Oh yeah, they’ll go up and talk to them’ – even though they’re in a wheelchair or have a speech impediment or whatever it is. You can’t assume that.

It’s so great that there are now education tools like what we’ve done at Get Skilled Access to educate people out there about the best way to integrate and onboard people with a disability. But also we need more government funding. We need more people to realise that this is a great thing to do.

I’m not complaining cause it is getting better. It is happening. There is a thirst for it. There definitely is. The example that I give is, 15 years ago if you were homophobic in your workplace, you might have got away with it, potentially. These days you aren’t allowed to do that.

Jenelle: That’s right.

Dylan: And rightfully so. You get destroyed. You will lose your job. Your business will go under. You will lose customers. Now if you are discriminatory to people with a disability, hopefully not, but maybe you might get away with it. It might not be as big. But guess what! I want to look back in 5 years, I want it to be now. We look back and say “You cannot do that” because disability is now in the mainstream, just like the LGBTIQ community. Just like gender equality. Just like race. Just like religion.

People always say when they talk about diversity, they always say the other 4 or 5 streams and they never mention disability until now. It’s starting to become in that conversation which is awesome. I think change is starting to happen. I think it’s up to all of us to keep promoting it.

Jenelle: Good on you. Clearly you’re a powerhouse of motivation and inspiration here. When was that moment that you’re like ‘You know what I have to exercise my voice’. I’ve got the ability to use my voice. Was there a particular moment when you went “Yep, I’m going to put myself out there.”

Dylan: You kind of fall into it a bit. One thing I will say is I never made a point of doing it. I made a point of being me. Being authentic to me. Being fully proud of my disability. Talking about it. Taking the piss out of it. Making jokes out of myself. I’m not going to not talk about it, like it’s in the elephant in the room.

Jenelle: At the risk of being ironic, you’ve just made it so accessible.

Dylan: Yeah exactly! And I didn’t do it on purpose. I honestly didn’t do it on purpose. I was just like I’m going to give everybody 100% full view of it. I’m going to talk about sex and disability. I’m going to talk about what’s it was like going on a date. I’m going to talk about how upset it makes me feel when I get discriminated. I’m not going to not. Cause it’s true. Everyone was like maybe there was a thirst for it, but it had cut through. That gave me the platform to be able to talk about these things I’m most passionate about and I mean this, I could win 25 grand slams, 10 gold medals hopefully, whatever it is, and I would regret not doing what I was put here to do – which is try and help people with a disability get out there and live the lives they deserve to live. I know I’ve said that before but honestly it’s my passion in life.

I think the key to unlocking success in your own personal life, within your work life, is happiness and purpose.

They’re the two things. It’s not money. It’s not cars. It’s not in my case tournaments, championships, whatever, it’s not. That goes across all of us. It’s happiness and purpose. I love my life. One of the reasons I’m so happy is because I have that purpose. It also helps me perform at my best. I’m so lucky to be who I am. I really am and I don’t take that for granted.

I want people like me to feel the same way that I do because unfortunately they don’t because they haven’t had the opportunities that I’ve had. They have never been on a date. They’ve never been in love. They’ve never had a job. They’ve never been to a restaurant. That’s serious. They’ve never done those things because they haven’t been given the opportunities or felt like they can. That’s why I do what I do. If it helps even one person, well then that’s awesome. You know what I mean?

Jenelle: I do.

Dylan: I’m not going to stop being me and people might see me in the media and go ‘that guy is a dickhead and I don’t like him or whatever’. You can do that. I couldn’t care less because I’m just being me. I’m not trying to be anybody else. I’m not trying to please anyone. I’m just trying to help in any small way that I can.

Jenelle: Well personal plea for me, please don’t ever stop being you cause we need you. You said that you kind of fall into these things, these opportunities, but there has got to be some sort of fear of the unknown when you are presented with new opportunities. Whether it’s radio DJ do you kind of go in with a ‘hell yeah I’m in’ or is it ‘oh I’ll give it a crack’ and then you become bolder over time as you kind of get success with that.

How do you approach new opportunities?

Dylan: I’m just like you. I’m thinking how the f am I going to do this! I’ve got no idea what I’m doing!

Jenelle: I know I’m always convinced I’m going to nail it. No I don’t!

Dylan: I got offered this job on JJJ. I had one lesson. By the way on radio, everyone thinks everyone runs the panel, when I was on JJJ I did everything. You do all the buttons. You do everything. It’s like a spaceship right! I had one lesson then I was broadcasting live to the whole of Australia. I had no idea what I was doing! But I’m always thinking ‘Hey I’ll figure it out’. You know what I mean?

Jenelle: Yep.

Dylan: Maybe I shy away from this. I don’t know write on the wall ‘I’m going to get a job as a broadcaster’, ‘I’m going to interview Prince Harry’, ‘I’m going to win this’, I’m not that kind of guy. But maybe there in the back of my head but for some reason all these opportunities come, keeping coming.

I will say this people say ‘you might be lucky’ and I’m very lucky to be in my position but you 100% make your own luck. In a sense that you put yourself in situations where these opportunities will come. If I was still that fat kid that I was eating Doritos, playing video games at home, I would never have had all these opportunities because they are not just going to fall into my lap at home, are they? You have to put yourself out there. You have to buy a ticket to win the raffle. If you put yourself out there, good things tend to happen.

I just realised that I’ve got to keep putting myself out there in situations that I might feel uncomfortable but that’s where things seem to happen. I will always have a crack.

We did the not-for-profit the DAF, the Dylan Alcott Foundation, or whether it’s Able Foods or TSA or whatever it is, I had no idea what I was doing when I founded these things. I just found a way to do it and as a result you not only have success but you also realise it’s ok to ask for help. It’s ok to ask questions. It’s ok to put yourself out there to other people and say ‘Can you help me with this?’. The one thing I have found is 99.99% of people will help you. If you’re a good person and you are doing a good thing, people seem to get behind you. I’m really lucky to.. It’s not a me, it’s a we. We have done this whether it’s the people in our team. Whether it’s the public. We’ve all got behind this crazy journey and message that I construed in my head. I actually can’t believe that it’s actually come true.

Jenelle: Love that. You’ve certainly had the opportunity to meet some pretty amazing people along your journey. I know there has been world leaders in there, Royalty, actors, musicians. Who stood out to you in terms of leadership or inspiration? Who has made that mark on you?

Dylan: The people that have had the biggest influence on my life. Personally would be my brother and my family. I know my brother Zac is my best mate in the whole world. When we were kids he used to want to watch what he wanted on tv so he used to put the Foxtel remote on top of the fridge where I couldn’t reach it! What a jerk! But retrospectively best thing he ever did cause he never cared that I was in a wheelchair. He treated me like I was any other brother. He always protected me so much. From bullies in the yard. He was massive and my parents they never wrapped me in cotton wool because I was different which made a big impact.

In terms of my sporting career probably one of the biggest influencers was a guy called Pat Rafter.

Jenelle: Pretty familiar with that name.

Dylan: Yeah. Not that I had much to do with him originally but I used to watch him on tv. Win, lose, draw, whatever, he was always just a great bloke. He was always gracious in victory or defeat. I wanted to be like that as well. He also looks great in underwear! I’m still waiting for an underwear brand to come knocking!

Jenelle: Ok there is still time!

Dylan: There is still time! It’s pretty cool now when I win something and Pat shoots me a text. We had a hit at the Australian Open whatever it is. It was pretty cool to get his interview, Prince Harry. He doesn’t do interviews, he does conversations. He doesn’t do interviews, it’s conversations. Alright. Fair enough. We had all the Royal protocol and things like that and to be able to have a conversation as I said with him was pretty incredible and I love what he has done for people with disability through his work with the Invictus Games. I remember thinking to myself you’ve interviewed rock stars, musicians, politicians, everyone and I always think if you take away all that, do you know what they are? They’re just people. I thought you know what I’m going to go for it, I’m just going to be myself. I thought I was brave. There is all this Royal protocol. Had this chat with Prince Harry, I made him put on a pair of budgie smugglers. Believe it! It went viral! And you’re not allowed to touch Royalty. I was on a roll, I forgot. I patted him on the back. Idiot! He patted me back on the back and we gave each other a hug. It went so well.

Jenelle: Wow.

Dylan: His Press Secretary, came over and said “Oh that was one of the best interviews he’s done!” I said “Oh I thought it was a conversation!” It just made me realise he is one of the most high profile, in demand people in the world, and his life would be so tough. Like the amount of press they get.

Jenelle: Particularly now.

Dylan: If you strip all that away he was just a normal dude. I think we are all like that. It was a good lesson for me just to be always be authentic to you. The people that are in these successful positions or whatever it is are just that for the most part. They’re just being them and that makes you vulnerable to being open but if you are open, whether you’re a CEO. I talk to a lot of people in the C suite level and some people feel like they can’t be their vulnerable selves because they have to be this position of power. But your staff relates to you when you are vulnerable.

Jenelle: Absolutely.

Dylan: That’s powerful. I think that’s an important lesson that I learnt and try to pass on to a lot of people.

Jenelle: Yeah and I do think there has been a growing recognition and realisation of that, particularly during COVID when everyone has been in the same boat together. We’re all stuck in our own rooms. People are seeing dirty laundry in the backgrounds of CEOs and it has been so fantastic for people to see that vulnerability and the human side.

Dylan: I love doing a Zoom call and you try and guess where everybody is. You’re like, “You’re in bed aren’t you?” and they go “My kids are screaming!”

Jenelle: That’s fantastic!

Dylan: Good stuff!

Jenelle: I have to ask you, tell me I said in the intro that you were crowd surfing in a wheelchair in a mosh pit of sorts right and I can’t get my head around that even in a COVID world now. But what was that like?

Dylan: Yeah well I was just sick and tired of looking at people’s arses all day long so you can’t see much from there and I obviously got picked up. First time was at Coachella during a Jay Z gig and he like stopped the set and said “Ya’ll give it up for this dude” and I call it the best seat in the house because obviously like they pick up the wheelchair, it’s the only time I get to see and I don’t like sitting at the back, my friends always go “We’ll sit up the back with you”. I go no, no stuff that we’ll go up front and guess what, I’ve only been dropped once.

Jenelle: Ok, that’s probably once too many isn’t it?

Dylan: Well I only got dropped once and I didn’t end up any more disabled than I started.

Jenelle: Fair call.

Dylan: That’s what I assured my Mum.

Jenelle: So we’ll call that a win.

Dylan: Correct.

The last three. Three fast questions on change to finish the podcast.

Jenelle: All right Dylan, I’m going to wrap up with a fast three questions for you. What’s a misconception that most people have about you?

Dylan: There’s two. The biggest misconception if you actually don’t know who I am is that I can’t do anything. For example not too long ago I ordered a coffee and this lovely lady came up to me and she was in tears and she congratulated me on ordering my coffee.

Jenelle: Oh my gosh.

Dylan: I said to her “Well it’s great to see you getting your own coffee too”. Her misconception is that I can’t do anything. The biggest barrier in my life is not ramps, not stairs, not access, it’s a lack of expectation of what people think…

Jenelle: Yeah it’s underestimating you. Ok what’s one guilty pleasure?

Dylan: My guilty pleasure is I absolutely love sitting on the couch and doing nothing. When I get the opportunity I can relax like with the rest of them. When I do get the opportunity to do nothing I’m extremely glad.

Jenelle: I’m going to feel like I know what you’re going to answer this question with but what’s one thing you’re hopeless at?

Dylan: Ah besides walking?

Jenelle: Thought you were going to go for walking.

Dylan: Yeah. I’ll tell you what I can’t do, I cannot draw even a single stick man. I like to say I have two disabilities. Walking and drawing. I have no artistic ability, I mean maybe I do have artistic ability in broadcasting at that, but when it comes to arts and crafts, absolutely I’m shocking. Absolutely shocking at it.

Jenelle: Ok, well there we have it. Dylan I want to thank you for your time today. I’ve enjoyed every single moment of it, so much for people to take away. For me there’s been a bunch of things. One clearly, you’ve taken a lesson out of Pat Rafter’s book, you are a great bloke and you smack of authenticity and I want to thank you for making disability accessible, approachable, giving people a language to kind of just ask the questions that they wanted to. Make that fine to learn. I think you’ve raised consciousness about how prolific disability is in Australia, one in five is pretty profound. I love that you’ve talked about the power of harnessing difference, the power of reframing how you perceive events, the need for us to change the narrative, and I love the whole “stuff this”. “Stuff this I’m just going to go and do it”. “Stuff this I’m going to take my life back”. I think you’ve managed to make those two words sound pretty profound. So thank you so much Dylan it’s been an absolute pleasure.

Dylan: Hey you’re an absolute legend. Thank you for having me on and if anyone wants to get in touch, please hit me up on my social media. It’s just my name @dylanalcott or want to do any work with any of the companies that I have please reach out. Because I’d love to help, love to get involved and I’ve got to say, you’re a bloody good broadcaster. You and I could do radio together Jenelle.

Jenelle: I’m up, I’m up for it!

Dylan: We could do some AM talkback. Let me just retire and that could be our new gig.

Jenelle: Ok, let’s take that one off line, like it! Thanks Dylan we’ll put the links to your pages as well on our post.

Dylan: Appreciate it thank you.

Jenelle: Thank you.

The ‘Change Happens Podcast’ from EY. A conversation on leading through change. Discover more where you get your podcasts.

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